Episode 72

A Yoga Expert and a Spine Surgeon Agree on the One Exercise Everyone Needs | Dean Pohlman

54:56 September 15, 2026 By Dr. Ravi Kumar MD
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Show Notes

Ravi can bench press a lot of weight. Put him in a side plank for 45 seconds and he starts shaking. That gap, between the strength we build in the gym and the strength our bodies actually need to stay out of pain, is what this whole conversation is about.

Dean Pohlman is the founder of Man Flow Yoga and one of the most recognized voices in men’s fitness and yoga. He grew up playing lacrosse, baseball, and soccer, and found yoga completely by accident in 2012. On the way to the gym he stopped to drop off a pair of pants at a tailor, could not find the tailor, and wandered into a 105 degree hot yoga studio instead. Halfway through the class he was drenched, looking around at everyone else wondering why they were not sweating, and realizing he was not as strong as he thought he was. Within a month he felt stronger, more fluid, and more in control of his breathing, and it carried over into his performance on the field. None of his lacrosse teammates would set foot in a studio with him, so he worked yoga into the team’s conditioning sessions instead. That was the seed of Man Flow Yoga. Medicine runs in the family too: his father practiced oncology at the Cleveland Clinic for over 30 years and was vice chair of operations at the Taussig Cancer Center, which started its own yoga program because of data showing it helps with cancer recovery.

Ravi comes at this from the other end of the problem. As a spine surgeon, he usually meets people at the end stage, when degeneration is pinching a nerve and surgery is on the table. So he asks Dean the obvious question: can yoga help the millions of people with back pain long before that? Dean points to a 2017 study finding that yoga was just as effective as physical therapy for chronic lower back pain, and explains why. He built a spinal health program with Texas Physical Therapy Specialists around four pillars: spinal strength, spinal mobility, core strength, and hip mobility. That is exactly what yoga postures train. He is also quick with the caveat. Walk into a random class with a herniated disc and you could make it worse, because reaching down to touch your toes is the last thing that disc needs. Ravi adds that a herniated disc pressing on a nerve is at the far end of spine disease and needs a doctor’s evaluation, not just a yoga mat.

In neurosurgery, Ravi says, life is a kyphosing event. We spend our lives flexing forward, sitting, looking down, and almost never pulling ourselves back upright. The front and back of the body drift out of balance, and when a muscle is chronically weaker than its opposing muscle, it spasms because it cannot pull back. That is a lot of back pain and neck pain. Dean calls sitting the elephant in the room: even a strength athlete who trains through full range of motion still spends most of the day in a chair. Isometric holds like planks, single leg bridges, and scapular stability work have pain relieving properties, but their real value is rebuilding muscle activation. Without it, you go to the gym to fix your glutes and core and end up using the same muscles you use while sitting, which is why so many people in their 40s, 50s, and 60s go to the gym all the time and still hurt everywhere.

The neck gets its own segment. Ravi had constant tension headaches during and after residency that meditation and time off did not touch. He started doing yoga and they went away. Dean’s explanation: releasing tension gives instant relief, but building strength in neglected posterior muscles is what makes relief last. Cobra, a back bend with cervical extension, is the direct counter to a day spent with your head jutting forward, and yoga holds you in positions like looking right, left, and up for 60 seconds at a time, ranges most of us almost never use.

From there they move to the nervous system. Dean describes breath as the gateway to controlling it, and admits he is an unusual instructor because he teaches technique first and breath second. Slowing the breath and staying present with physical sensation pulls you out of fight or flight and into a parasympathetic state, and the older he gets, the more he believes stress will kill him faster than a cheeseburger ever will. Ravi brings in the physiology: several studies show yoga raises heart rate variability, a marker of vagal tone, and he does not know of any pill that does that. He also takes on the placebo objection. Yoga studies do have control groups. What they cannot have is a sham group, because there is no sugar pill version of yoga. And in one study of women with subjective cognitive decline, three months of yoga kept gray matter from shrinking while a memory training group kept losing volume.

Dean shares his own before-and-after story. He had mild asthma as a kid, and a breathing assessment a few months before he started yoga put him at about 90% of what was expected for his age, which surprised him as a collegiate athlete. About a month into yoga he was retested at around 110 to 115%, with nothing else changed. Ravi suspects the measurement was forced expiratory volume, and walks through how the intercostal muscles and diaphragm can stiffen when we never train them. He also brings up James Nestor’s book Breath and its account of VA patients with COPD whose lungs, posture, and even rib cage shape changed once they learned to breathe properly.

The last stretch is practical. Dean matches programs to fitness level rather than age, since he has men in their 70s who can handle his programs for younger guys and men in their 40s who struggle with his series for men in their 60s. Yin, power, and Vinyasa can feel like completely different activities, and even two Vinyasa teachers can vary wildly, so find a style and a teacher you actually vibe with. Ravi prefers practicing at home: no drive, no dress code, a $10 mat, and a screen. He was skeptical of yoga until he turned 40, then took a class with his wife, got his butt kicked while she held side planks for three minutes, and ended up calling it probably the single most beneficial exercise he has ever done. Dean closes with the line that frames the episode: if you want to keep doing the things you enjoy as you age, this is not a nice to have. As Ravi puts it, see Dean first, so you don’t have to see him later.

Episode Resources

In this episode, you will discover:

  • Yoga matched physical therapy for back pain: A 2017 study found yoga was just as effective as physical therapy for treating chronic lower back pain
  • The four pillars of spinal health: The program Dean built with Texas Physical Therapy Specialists rests on spinal strength, spinal mobility, core strength, and hip mobility, which is exactly what yoga postures train
  • A random class can make back pain worse: With a herniated disc, reaching down to touch your toes is the last thing you want, so it pays to learn which poses to avoid for your condition before you start
  • Life is a kyphosing event: Ravi’s neurosurgery phrase for a lifetime of flexing forward, which leaves the front and back of the body out of balance until the weaker muscles start to spasm
  • Isometrics relieve pain and rebuild activation: Planks, single leg bridges, and scapular stability holds have pain relieving properties and reconnect you to muscles that sitting has switched off
  • The gym can reinforce your imbalances: Without glute, core, or scapular activation, exercises meant to target those muscles just recruit the same ones you use while sitting
  • Release is instant, strength is lasting: Stretching out tension gives quick relief, but building strength in neglected posterior muscles, like the neck extensors worked in cobra, is what keeps the pain away
  • Your neck rarely leaves neutral: Yoga holds you looking right, left, and up for 60 seconds at a time, ranges most of us almost never use in a day of staring straight ahead
  • Breath is the gateway to the nervous system: Slowing the breath and staying present with physical sensation pulls you out of fight or flight and into a parasympathetic state
  • Yoga raises heart rate variability: Several studies show it improves HRV, a marker of vagal tone that Ravi says no pill he knows of can match
  • Controlled, but not sham controlled: Yoga studies do have control groups, but there is no sugar pill version of yoga, which is the honest limit of the evidence
  • Three months of yoga protected gray matter: In women with subjective cognitive decline, the yoga group’s gray matter held steady while a memory training group kept losing volume
  • A breathing test before and after: Dean’s breathing capacity went from about 90% of what was expected for his age to around 110 to 115% after a month of practice, with nothing else changed
  • A self-check you can do on the floor: Lie on your back, touch your stomach, ribs, sides, and chest, and notice whether the air expands evenly, since asymmetry often lines up with the side that hurts
  • Why men skip yoga: Dean’s own poll found three reasons: they don’t want the spiritual side, they don’t think it’s masculine, and they don’t want to look unsure of themselves in a room full of women

Key Takeaways

You are probably weaker than you think in the places that matter. Heavy compound lifts do not train the small stabilizers, sustained holds, and end ranges that keep your spine and neck balanced. Ravi found that out the first time a 45 second side plank had him shaking.

Sitting is the elephant in the room. Even people who train through a full range of motion spend most of their day seated, and that is what drives the forward posture, weak core, and sleepy glutes behind so much back and neck pain.

Learn your contraindications before you walk into a class. Yoga done blind can aggravate a herniated disc or chronic low back pain. Know which poses to avoid for your condition, and remember that a herniated disc pressing on a nerve still needs a doctor’s evaluation.

Build strength, not just flexibility. Stretching buys short term relief. Isometric holds and work for the muscles on the back of your body are what make that relief last.

Train your breath like any other skill. Most workouts never ask you to think about breathing. Breathing into your ribs, diaphragm, and upper back opens up range of motion, and even five minutes of focused practice teaches your body to down regulate under stress.

Match the style and the teacher to you. Yin, power, and Vinyasa can feel like different sports, and two teachers of the same style can vary wildly. Choose based on your current fitness level, not your age, and find someone you actually want to keep working out with.

The barrier to entry is close to zero. A $10 mat, a screen, and five minutes is enough to start. No prescription, no expensive clothes, and you can do it at home.

It’s never too late to start. Ravi was skeptical until he turned 40, and yoga became, in his words, probably the single most beneficial exercise he has ever done. Dean’s framing is simple: if you want to keep doing the things you enjoy as you age, this is not a nice to have.

Transcript

[00:00 –> 00:25] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Welcome back to The Dr Kumar Discovery. My name’s Dr. Ravi Kumar. And today, I’m joined by Dean Pohlman, the founder of Man Flow Yoga and one of the most recognized voices in men’s fitness and yoga today. Now when most of us hear the word yoga, the first thing we think of is a studio full of women in leggings who are already super flexible, way more flexible than we would ever hope to be.

[00:26 –> 01:03] Dr. Ravi Kumar: But in reality, yoga is a millennia old system for building strength, controlling your breath, and regulating your nervous system, and the effects show up in places you would never expect. Your spine, your lungs, your lung capacity, and even the gray matter in your brain. My guest today, Dean, stumbled into a yoga studio completely by accident. He was a college lacrosse player who ducked into the studio while trying to kill time before a workout, and he was totally blown away. Within a month, he started noticing changes in his body that ended up redirecting his entire career.

[01:04 –> 01:42] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Since then, he’s built Man Flow Yoga into one of the largest yoga platforms out there. So it’s gonna be a great conversation. And by the end of this episode, you’re gonna understand why yoga actually performs on par with physical therapy for chronic low back pain, what isometric holds are, and why you may not be as strong as you think you are. We’ll talk about how breathing itself is a trainable skill that changes your posture and your lung capacity. We’ll talk about what’s happening in your nervous system when you do yoga and how yoga may rewire those circuits that are creating mental and emotional havoc.

[01:42 –> 02:03] Dr. Ravi Kumar: And we’ll talk about how to actually find a yoga style and a teacher that works really well for you and whatever’s going on in your body. So one more thing before we dive in, I gotta give you a quick disclaimer. I’m a doctor, but I’m not your doctor. This show is for informational purposes only. Everything you learn in my conversation with Dean is meant to empower you.

[02:04 –> 02:23] Dr. Ravi Kumar: So take this knowledge and use it to build a more informed, healthier life. And just to be clear, this show is separate from my role as assistant professor at UNC. And one last thing, over 100,000 people are tuning into The Dr Kumar Discovery every month, and your feedback has been amazing. But I need your help to grow this show even further.

[02:23 –> 02:51] Dr. Ravi Kumar: The algorithms are looking for engagement. So if you leave a comment, leave a review, or maybe share this video with someone you know, that sends a signal to the algorithms to feed this show to more people. And the more people we reach with good, unbiased, honest information on living a healthier, better life, the better. So please help me get the word out. All you gotta do is like, comment, review, and share, and I’d be super appreciative.

[02:51 –> 03:11] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Alright. Let’s get into it. My name is Dr. Ravi Kumar. I’m a neurosurgeon in search of the causes of human illness and the solutions that help us heal and thrive. I want you to join me on a journey of discovery as I turn over every stone in search of the roots of disease and the mysteries of our resilience.

[03:11 –> 03:32] Dr. Ravi Kumar: The human body is a mysterious and miraculous machine with an amazing ability to self heal. Let us question everything and discover our true potentials. Welcome to The Dr Kumar Discovery. Alright. So Dean Pohlman, thanks so much for coming on the show.

[03:32 –> 04:00] Dr. Ravi Kumar: I’m super excited to have you here like I am with most of my guests. And today, we’re talking about something that’s a little bit different than what we usually do. Usually, we talk about drugs, you know, medical interventions, diet and lifestyle things that we can do. But you’re an expert in a practice that’s millennia old, literally, that has very substantial and measurable effects on the human body. And I think most people know about yoga, which is your field.

[04:01 –> 04:08] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Mhmm. But most people don’t understand how impactful it could be. Yeah. I mean, has been for me. It’s been crazy effective for me.

[04:08 –> 04:20] Dr. Ravi Kumar: So I was I wanna know all about yoga, and I want my audience to hear all about it from you. And maybe you could just start off with telling us, like, how you fell into this field and how you’ve become so influential.

[04:20 –> 04:38] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. So, Dr. Kumar, thanks for having me, first off. And my dad my dad’s an oncologist. He practiced at the Cleveland Clinic for 30, 35 years, so I’ll I’ll do my best not to put him in the same cat put you in the same category as him. Maybe he maybe you’ll listen a bit better than he does.

[04:39 –> 04:56] Dean Pohlman: But I yeah. So I I grew up as a very very gifted athlete, I would say. So, I loved working out. You know, I played lacrosse, I played baseball, soccer. Lacrosse became my main sport, and I started yoga completely on accident.

[04:56 –> 05:17] Dean Pohlman: One day on the way to the tailor, I stopped looking or onto the way to the gym, I stopped to the tailor to drop off some pants, and I couldn’t find the tailor. And I stumbled into a yoga studio, and I was like, I was gonna do a workout anyways. I wanted to try yoga for a while. Let me give it a shot. And, you know, halfway through the workout, it’s been, you know, I’m totally drenched, totally drenched in sweat.

[05:17 –> 05:40] Dean Pohlman: It’s a 105 degrees, you know. I think that I’m unpunct at this point, because I’m looking around at everybody who’s like, why aren’t you sweating too? Like, what’s I feel like I’m working way harder than you guys. And for me, it just kind of pointed out I’m not as strong as I thought I was. Like, there are so many different areas of my fitness that I need more work in, and yoga just happened to be, you know, poking all of my weaknesses.

[05:40 –> 06:06] Dean Pohlman: So I stuck with it, noticed within a month that I was feeling a lot stronger, a lot more fluid with my body, more flexible, more in control of my breathing. That was translating into my other workouts as well and my performance on the field. And I tried to get some of my teammates to do it with me. Right? This is 2012, like, lacrosse bros, like, trying to get these guys who are all probably insecure about their masculinity to go into a yoga studio at this point in their lives, and and nobody would go with me.

[06:06 –> 06:36] Dean Pohlman: So I ended up working it into some of the conditioning sessions that I did, because I led the team in conditioning sessions, and and they liked it. And I remember getting a round of applause at one point for one of the poses that I did, like, just kind of spontaneously broke out into applause. They’re like, wow, that was I was like, oh, thank you. Maybe that was the beginning of my my my Instagram posting. But but, yeah, so that that’s kind of my background and how I got started with yoga, and just kind of the, really just a desire to this is really working for me.

[06:36 –> 06:43] Dean Pohlman: Let me see if I can present this in a way that more men would do it, because men really weren’t doing yoga at that time.

[06:44 –> 07:04] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. I mean, I was just in the gym the other day, and I walked by the yoga studio, and there was about 20 women in there, not one guy. Yeah. I mean, I’ve done I’ve done yoga classes before, and it’s generally, you know, depending on which part of the country you’re doing your yoga class in, it’s it’s usually mostly women. Why do you think guys don’t wanna do yoga?

[07:04 –> 07:06] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Is it what’s behind that?

[07:06 –> 07:25] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. So I actually early on, when I started Man Flow Yoga, I created a poll on my website. I think it was published in other areas too, and so we we actually collected data on this myself. And there were three big reasons why men did not wanna do yoga. Number one, they didn’t want the spiritual side.

[07:25 –> 07:38] Dean Pohlman: And I think that also goes with kind of, they didn’t think it was gonna be a good enough workout. It wasn’t gonna be challenging enough. The second reason, not not masculine enough. Right? Men just men wanted to do more masculine things.

[07:38 –> 08:11] Dean Pohlman: They thought yoga was feminine, and they just they just didn’t wanna do it. And I think the third reason was men just don’t wanna be in a female dominated atmosphere where they’re not good at things. They don’t wanna look unsure of themselves in general, but they definitely don’t want to look unsure of themselves when they’re surrounded by women. And I think there’s also, like that also kinda goes with this idea that you have to be flexible to do yoga, that it’s like the goal of yoga is to be flexible. And at that time, and even for many years, yoga was thought of as, like, that’s the flexibility practice.

[08:11 –> 08:25] Dean Pohlman: Right? You go to the gym to work out, but if you want flexibility, do yoga. And since then, there’s, you know, I think mobility as a fitness category has come up a lot more. Right? There’s not just yoga anymore, but back then, that was kind of like what you did for flexibility.

[08:26 –> 08:55] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. So maybe it’s a good point here just to to step take one step back and tell the audience what yoga is. I think everyone knows what yoga is, but maybe touch on, you know, where it came from and why it’s persisted through literally thousands and thousands of years. I mean, because all the other things we do, like pilates and, you know, calisthenics and I mean, these are recent activities, but yoga is is not, and it’s persisted. It’s not like been a fad.

[08:55 –> 08:59] Dr. Ravi Kumar: So tell us a little bit about the history of yoga and why it’s still practiced today.

[08:59 –> 09:35] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. So I will say I’m not the best person to give the historical explanation of yoga because I don’t practice yoga in the traditional sense. I’m much more focused on yoga as there are actually two definitions to yoga at this point because yoga is such a kind of wide stream like, mainstream fitness discipline at this point that they’re kind of our two practices. So the first definition of yoga would be like this millennial practice that you’re talking about. It’s a group of physical, mental, and spiritual disciplines originating in ancient India that aim to control and integrate the body and mind.

[09:35 –> 10:00] Dean Pohlman: And I’m reading off a a definition. I didn’t I didn’t memorize that for for you for you guys wonder. But but yoga means yoga comes from the word yoke or to to join, to become one. And so, you know, yoga is the historical it’s kind of like a it is a way of thinking, it is a way of life. There are some overlaps with Buddhism, but it’s not its own religion.

[10:00 –> 10:25] Dean Pohlman: And that’s I think that’s the big thing that people, you know, a lot of people in The United States get kind of like mixed up on that. They’re like, oh, I’m a Christian, so I can’t do yoga. And I’m like, you’re just stretching and breathing, it’s totally fine. But, you know, there’s there’s still some misconceptions to overcome there. The second definition of yoga is kind of more the modern version of yoga, which is, you know, kind of the the breathing, the postures, the emphasis on mindfulness.

[10:25 –> 10:52] Dean Pohlman: Right? So it’s it’s a it’s a less spiritual, less religious based practice, and more focused on the mind, the body, the breathing. Most yoga that you’ll experience at a yoga studio kind of falls into that that second category. For the most part, when you go to a yoga class, like online or in a studio, you’re not going to get as much of the philosophy behind it that fits into that first category.

[10:53 –> 10:56] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Okay. So that was a great explanation, actually.

[10:56 –> 10:57] Dean Pohlman: Thank you.

[10:57 –> 11:07] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Okay. So the it you it’s a mind, body, breath practice. Mhmm. What does it do to the body? I mean, I know there’s a lot of things that and we’ll go on we’ll go into them through the show.

[11:07 –> 11:23] Dr. Ravi Kumar: But, generally, what are people feeling? What are they seeing when they start yoga? Like, from athletes like, you know, you and your your your lacrosse bros to to, you know, 60 year olds just getting in the gym and trying yoga for the first time. What are they gonna see?

[11:24 –> 11:40] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. So I think sometimes you’ll have yoga instructors who will kind of over inflate the benefits of yoga compared compared to other exercise. And the reality is that yoga covers a lot of the same benefits that you’ll get from other exercise. Right? So, yes, you will work on cardiovascular ability.

[11:40 –> 12:01] Dean Pohlman: You’re gonna work on strength. It does have a bit more balance emphasis than a lot of types of exercise. Right? So your most workouts, you’re not standing on one leg and trying to do something for 30, 45, or 60 seconds. There’s also not as much emphasis on flexibility, right, or mobility, or, you know, it’s also a great way to work on isometric strengthening.

[12:01 –> 12:36] Dean Pohlman: So there’s the physical component for sure and all of the benefits that we know about exercise that that fit into that. But on the other side, what I think what really makes yoga unique, and and this goes across all demographics, men, women, teenagers, people in their seventies, eighties. Interestingly, my so I know this because my dad was the vice chair of operations at the Cleveland Taussig Cancer Center. And they started a yoga program because there is data that says that it helps with recovery from cancer. So there is data that supports this.

[12:36 –> 13:05] Dean Pohlman: But I think the real big reason why yoga is unique from other types of fitness is because of the emphasis on breathing and mindfulness and body awareness. And so when you move from just going through the, you know, just going through the motions or the reps, right, or or the movements themselves, and you start focusing on what is my body doing in this position? Where am I holding tension? Am I slowing down my breathing? Am I focused on the exercise at hand, or is my mind somewhere else?

[13:05 –> 13:21] Dean Pohlman: And when you do that for, you know, 20 minutes for me, it’s about 15, 20 minutes, then I kind of lock into this this kind of mindfulness state. When you do that, it leads to all these benefits outside of, you know, traditional exercise. Right? So you have the mindfulness benefits. You have the focus benefits.

[13:21 –> 13:50] Dean Pohlman: There’s stress relief benefits. And so there there becomes this huge shift in how your day feels when you do yoga versus those days when you don’t do yoga. So I I think, yes, there’s the physical benefits, but it’s really going beyond the physical into those with the focus, the mindfulness, the stress relief, the ability to be present, to create a distinction between the stimuli and your response to it that makes yoga special.

[13:50 –> 14:07] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. No. I definitely I think you’re right. And the the scientific literature supports it because, I mean, this stuff you’re saying is not just empirical. They’ve actually studied these in clinical trials and and seen real physiological measurable effects in all the domains you just talked about.

[14:07 –> 14:08] Dr. Ravi Kumar: So Yeah.

[14:08 –> 14:17] Dean Pohlman: And there’s I mean, there’s sexual wellness. There’s testosterone. There’s a great book called The Science of Yoga, goes into all of this, and it’s it’s relatively old. That book’s, like, from 2010, 2011, I think.

[14:17 –> 14:24] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Oh, yeah. And there’s been a lot of lot of stuff that’s come out since then. Mhmm. Very very interesting. I haven’t read that book.

[14:24 –> 14:40] Dr. Ravi Kumar: I’ll have to pick it up. Yeah. So tell us let’s let’s start kind of going through maybe the domains where yoga can be useful. And, you know, I think first off, we should say that overall health and wellness, it is it can be transformative. Is that was that safe to say?

[14:41 –> 14:55] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So if you don’t have a disease, you know, if you just wanna be the best version of yourself, yoga can bring things into alignment that you never really realized could be, or Mhmm.

[14:55 –> 15:09] Dr. Ravi Kumar: You know, at least that’s how I I felt when I started practicing yoga, very late in life, I would say. So we’ll say that if you’re if you don’t have a disease, yoga is still fantastic. You should give it a try. Let’s talk about some disease states, though. Back pain.

[15:09 –> 15:27] Dr. Ravi Kumar: This is very common in The United States, and I treat spine problems all the time. I usually come in at the end stage, right, where the the back in is so degenerated degenerated that now you’re pinching a nerve and there’s deformity, and so I have to fix it with surgery.

[15:27 –> 15:28] Dean Pohlman: Mhmm. But

[15:28 –> 15:37] Dr. Ravi Kumar: before that happens, there’s just millions and millions of people around the world who are suffering with back pain. Mhmm. Can yoga be effective for those people?

[15:37 –> 16:07] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. Absolutely. There’s actually you know, you and I talked about this beforehand, but there is a study from 2017 that specifically find the the findings are specifically that yoga is just as effective as physical therapy when it comes to treating chronic lower back pain. And, you know, the reason for that is just because it’s touching on all the things that go into spinal health. I actually created a spinal health program with I believe they’re the largest physical therapy clinic in Texas, Texas Physical Therapy Specialists.

[16:07 –> 16:35] Dean Pohlman: And we created a program based on you know, there’s there’s four things that go into spinal health. We have spinal strength, spinal mobility, core strength, and hip mobility. So when you look at those things, that’s what yoga really focuses on. That’s what the post that’s what the postures do. When we’re working on opening up the hips, we’re working on building core strength, we’re working on doing, you know, things like spinal extension exercises, helping people to be able to do spinal flexion without pain.

[16:35 –> 16:52] Dean Pohlman: So this just happens to have all of those movements that are really good for your back combined into kind of a nonstop flow experience. Now I will say that if you go into a random yoga class and you just say, hey. I’m here. I’ve got chronic back pain. I’m gonna fix my back pain.

[16:52 –> 17:06] Dean Pohlman: You could actually end up making it worse because there are some movements in yoga that are the exact opposite of what you’ll want to do. Right? So if you have chronic lower back pain, if you have a herniated disc, the last thing you’re gonna wanna do is reach down and touch your toes. Right? Right.

[17:06 –> 17:24] Dean Pohlman: There are certain movements that you should avoid, and it so it does take some education on your part to understand which poses should I be doing, what should I not be doing based on my condition. But overall, a lot of the postures and exercises that you will find in a yoga class directly address root causes of chronic lower back pain.

[17:25 –> 17:50] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. Now if you have a herniated disc, I mean, that’s at the far extreme of spine disease, basically. You’ve got so much immobility and degeneration of the disc that it’s ruptured, and now it’s pushing on a nerve. And that and that is something that may that needs to be evaluated by a doctor. But up to that point, I mean, there’s a huge spectrum of change that happens throughout your life that leads to those things.

[17:50 –> 18:00] Dr. Ravi Kumar: And Mhmm. You know, one one thing we say in neurosurgery, because I’m a neurosurgeon, is that life is a kyphosing event. And so, you know, if if you’re watching on the on YouTube It’s

[18:00 –> 18:01] Dean Pohlman: a it’s a new phrase for me.

[18:01 –> 18:15] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. It’s this leaning over. You saw often seen, like, people, old older people who have, like, this kyphotic deformity, and they’re just kind of hunched over. And that’s a lifetime of leaning forward.

[18:15 –> 18:15] Dean Pohlman: Right.

[18:15 –> 18:25] Dr. Ravi Kumar: And if you think about it in life, what do we do? We generally flex the front of our body. Like, right now, I’m sitting in a chair. I’m Yeah. I’m in I’m flexing forward, and that’s kyphosis.

[18:25 –> 18:34] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. And so we don’t spend a lot of time pulling ourselves back upright. And and so you get this imbalance between the front and the back of your body.

[18:34 –> 18:34] Dean Pohlman: Mhmm.

[18:34 –> 18:57] Dr. Ravi Kumar: You get imbalances up and down your body. Like, your glutes tend to be these massive, strong muscles, and your, you know, your erector spinae and the other muscles around your lower back are just not as strong, and they they push and pull on each other. Mhmm. The same thing, the front and backs of your body push and pull on each other, and you you’ve gotta have this balance. And if you don’t, you know, the muscles that are being over pulled, they spasm.

[18:57 –> 19:05] Dr. Ravi Kumar: The muscles that are pulling too hard, they get tight. Yeah. I feel like yoga puts all that in balance. I mean, would you agree that that’s a pretty good assessment?

[19:06 –> 19:32] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. And, you know, I I had a I had an interview with a guy a couple days ago, and we were talking about how, you know, the we were talking about whether or not you needed yoga. Because he is a strength training guy, and he’s like, I do full range of motion when I do strength training, so I don’t need as much emphasis on yoga. And I’m like, I agree. However, the big elephant in the room here is that, like you said, we’re all sitting.

[19:32 –> 19:42] Dean Pohlman: We are all sitting all the time. You and I are sitting right now, and we’re like, you’re a back surgeon, you know? You you know not to sit. I am a I’m a yoga guy. Right?

[19:42 –> 19:52] Dean Pohlman: I’m a mobility guy. I’m a men’s wellness guy, but here I am sitting in this chair. Now I do have, you know, different alternative setups for this. This is a stand up desk. I’ve got this weird wobbly chair here.

[19:52 –> 20:13] Dean Pohlman: I’ll show you. It’s like a wobbly chair that I sit on, so my core stays engaged, and I have a slant So, I I try to not sit all the time. But the reality is that most of us are spending, you know, the majority of our day sitting, and that is causing that kyphosis that you mentioned. It’s also causing a weak core. You mentioned having strong glutes.

[20:14 –> 20:33] Dean Pohlman: I wish everybody had stronger glutes, but the reality is, like, we don’t have strong glutes because we’re sitting on our butt all day. You know? So, like, there’s all these things that happen as a result of sitting that, yes, yoga can do a good job with the right postures and the right sequencing. So, you know, things that yoga does that you won’t get as much of in your other workouts. Isometrics.

[20:33 –> 20:42] Dean Pohlman: Yoga’s actually great for isometrics. It is an it’s a wonderful opportunity for you to practice isometric exercises, which is great for building that muscle awareness that most of us don’t have. You could be Can

[20:42 –> 20:44] Dr. Ravi Kumar: you explain isometrics, Dean, real quick?

[20:44 –> 21:18] Dean Pohlman: So, isometrics, few examples would be like a plank, a single leg bridge exercise, something like a Y, T, or A, scapular stability hold. So, like, you know, if you’re lying on your chest and you lift your arms up as high as you can off the ground, Those are all examples of isometric exercises, and they actually have pain relieving properties. So doing isometrics consistently will lead to pain relief. But what they’re really good for is establishing that mind body connection, or there’s there’s few different ways to say it. You can think of it I like to talk about it as muscle activation.

[21:18 –> 21:35] Dean Pohlman: In reality, it’s just basic strength levels. It’s just being able to use that muscle for what it’s supposed to be used for. And most of us don’t have that connection to the to those muscles to be able to use them. So, you know, most people don’t have good glute activation. Most people don’t have transverse abdominis activation.

[21:36 –> 22:07] Dean Pohlman: Most of us don’t have good scapular stabilizers, you know, just activation in those muscles. And so what yoga does really well is targeting some of those muscle groups that get weak as a result of sitting at a chair. And I think the big problem here is a lot of people do strength training. So they go to the gym, and they do exercises that are supposed to target these muscles, but because they don’t have those neural pathways, they don’t have that connection. And so they’ll do an exercise that targets glutes.

[22:07 –> 22:37] Dean Pohlman: But because they don’t have that glute activation, those muscles aren’t turning on, and you’re just using all the same muscles that you used when you were sitting. So you’re going to the gym, you think you’re helping yourself, and in reality, you’re just kind of contributing to these muscular imbalances. And then you wonder, you know, why you enter your forties and your fifties or sixties, and you’re like, I go to the gym all the time, but my knees, my back, my shoulders, everything hurts. It’s because you have all these weaknesses that you’re not addressing, and they’re stemming from that inactivity, sitting in the chair mostly.

[22:38 –> 23:10] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. And also I would say, I mean, I go to the gym and I lift heavy, but and and I try to use compound exercises, but still, it it just doesn’t simulate the breadth of work that you do in yoga. I mean, when you you you can be the strongest dude or the strongest woman, and you go into yoga studio for the first time, and you feel like the weakest person in that studio. Yeah. And I I mean, I can tell you, you know, I can bench press all this weight, and then I go and try to do a side plank for, you know, 45 seconds.

[23:10 –> 23:11] Dr. Ravi Kumar: I’m like, oh, I’m shaking.

[23:11 –> 23:12] Dean Pohlman: Yeah.

[23:12 –> 23:39] Dr. Ravi Kumar: And and that’s that’s isometrics. Right? You’re you’re having your muscles have to just hold this posture, which is super healthy for you, by the way, because it releases all this nitric oxide and it, you know, calls and establishes this connection between the brain and the muscles that’s not normally used. So, yeah, I I think that that’s a really good point that the, you know, isometrics and yoga are probably one of the, like, the biggest benefits. What now let’s we’re talking about the spine.

[23:39 –> 23:54] Dr. Ravi Kumar: What about the the neck? Because let me just give you a quick story. I was having, tension headaches all the time. You know, I was in the in my residency or I was shortly after my residency, I was very stressed out. I figured it’s just stress.

[23:54 –> 24:03] Dr. Ravi Kumar: You know, I gotta meditate, do all these things, try to take some days off. It just wasn’t helping. I started doing yoga, and that just went away like that. Wow. I’m not joking.

[24:03 –> 24:19] Dr. Ravi Kumar: It was it was, like, extraordinary. And I I haven’t seen some clinical studies backing this up, but does that does that make sense, that maybe, you know, I’m I’m releasing the these posterior cervical tension and, like, getting rid of my headaches that way through yoga?

[24:19 –> 24:32] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. And I I think that’s that’s part of it is just getting rid of the tension, but it’s also building strength in those muscles. Right? I think a lot of people think about pain relief and yoga as, oh, I need to release tension. I need to stretch more.

[24:32 –> 24:50] Dean Pohlman: And, yes, that’s part of it, and I think that provides the instant relief. But what leads to the sustained and prolonged relief is building strength. Right? And so something that’s unique about yoga is, you know, if you’re picture the quintessential yoga pose when you’re on your ground. Right?

[24:50 –> 25:16] Dean Pohlman: It’s called a cobra. You’re lying on the ground, your arms are kind of under your chest, and you’re arching your back off the ground and looking either at the wall in front of you or up at the ceiling. Most of us never use those muscles in the back. And because we’re in that position with the head jutting forward and hunched over something, that’s the that back bend, that cobra position, that extension, that cervical extension is exactly what you need to counter that pain. You know?

[25:16 –> 25:31] Dean Pohlman: And you and I are doing a great example of this right now, but you and I are looking straightforward. Right? We’re not like not like sitting sideways and like, oh, let me get some, you know, let me get some rotation for my my my my neck. Let me look this way. Let me face the other way so that I get my neck moving.

[25:32 –> 26:00] Dean Pohlman: And and yoga actually does get you into those positions where you’re looking to the right for 60 seconds, where you’re looking to the left for 60 seconds, where you’re looking up and to the right. You know? So these are all movements that we just don’t do on a daily basis unless you’re doing, you know, a dedicated practice where you are going through those basic movements, looking right, looking left, looking up, not as much looking down, but doing those, you know, side to side and up, your neck’s gonna hurt. Yeah.

[26:01 –> 26:12] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. Right. No. I think I think you’re right. I mean, I spent, you know, many days in the OR just looking straight down operating, and and I think that’s led to some weakness and balance.

[26:12 –> 26:33] Dr. Ravi Kumar: And, yeah, like, I I you know, one thing that I often tell my patients is that, when one muscle’s weaker than the other, and they’re both in opposition to maintain balance in your body. So, like, imagine the bicep and the tricep. Right? The triceps to extend, the biceps to to flex, and they’re in opposition, right? And you have those all over your body everywhere.

[26:34 –> 27:10] Dr. Ravi Kumar: I mean, every single part of your body has to stay in balance or else you fall over, you fall in one direction. So, you know, when you’ve chronically weakened one muscle and strengthened another through this these chronic postures like you’re talking about, like me staring down in the wound during the while I’m operating for hours in the OR, you’re gonna get you’re gonna get this push and pull that’s way off. And and when a muscle’s weak, it often spasms because it can’t pull back against the stronger muscle, and that’s oftentimes back pain. That’s oftentimes neck pain. It’s the spasm of the weaker muscle.

[27:10 –> 27:36] Dr. Ravi Kumar: So, yeah, yoga I mean, yoga was fantastic for me, and I think, your explanation made a lot of sense. Let’s talk about, let’s move on to the nervous system because this is also something that I love. Yeah. You know, you talked a lot about the mind body connection and the, you know, the breath. What what is yoga doing to the central nervous system, and and what kind of effects do would people see if after practicing yoga?

[27:37 –> 28:10] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. So, you know, if you’re listening to the show, you probably are already aware of, you know, how your central nervous system works and parasympathetic versus sympathetic. But your breath is, you know, the gateway to controlling your nervous system. And so because yoga places so much emphasis on breath by the way, I’m I’m kind of a weird yoga instructor in the sense that I emphasize technique first and breath second because I find that you need to have proper technique for the breathing to be facilitated. If you just focus on breath, your technique won’t necessarily lock in.

[28:10 –> 28:57] Dean Pohlman: But if you do focus on technique first, then it does help lock in the breathing. But because there is such emphasis on breathing, it allows you to get into that parasympathetic state. You know, when you’re slowing down your breathing, when you are being present, when you’re focusing on your body and your breathing, right, in the present, your physical sensations, instead of focusing on the future or the past. So purely from, you know, a mental wellness perspective, we know that we know that anxiety, we know that depression, these are caused by looking forward or looking backward. And, you know, if you’re having a panic attack or you’re experiencing anxiety or depression, the way to get out of that isn’t by continuing to think about how do I fix this situation, it’s bringing yourself into the present and looking at, okay, am I safe now?

[28:57 –> 29:10] Dean Pohlman: What’s going on in my body? Right? One of the first things that you’ll talk about if you’ve had therapy before, right, and and you’ve had anxiety or or panic issues, you’ll do finger touching. Right? These little finger drills where you’re focusing on your body, or you alternate going through the senses.

[29:10 –> 29:33] Dean Pohlman: You’re like, what’s something you see? What’s something you smell? What’s something you can hear? What’s something you can touch? And so it’s because of this emphasis on body awareness, this emphasis on breathing, the focus on mindfulness that it allows you to get out of that fight or flight state and allows you to activate the parasympathetic nervous system, allows you to to down regulate.

[29:34 –> 30:28] Dean Pohlman: And, you know, the the older I get you know, I used to believe that if I just ate well and exercised, that I’d be healthy. And the older I get, the more I realize stress is going to kill me way more than a cheeseburger will. And so, you know, if we’re looking at this overall goal of how do I live a long, healthy, happy life, it is in controlling your stress. And when you spend, even if it’s five minutes, just five minutes doing yoga, or 10 minutes, 20 minutes, if you’re fortunate enough and you have time for a 60 minute class, When you get that time dedicated to focusing on being present, focusing on body awareness, focusing on breathing, that trains your body to be able to down regulate so that when you are in stressful situations, you notice, oh, I’m like, I’m tensing up. Right?

[30:28 –> 30:41] Dean Pohlman: You instinctively learn to breathe and to control that stress, and kinda like I talked about before, to create to be able to have space between what’s happening and what is my response to it.

[30:42 –> 30:48] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. No. I think that’s that that was really well said. And, you know, they physiologically, they’ve measured this. Right?

[30:48 –> 31:14] Dr. Ravi Kumar: I mean Mhmm. Heart rate variability, which is a kind of a measure of vagal tone, which, you know, the vagal tone is how relaxed and and focused you are. Heart rate variability, when it goes up, it’s a sign that you are generally healthier mentally. And Mhmm. And yoga over and over in these studies, I mean, several studies have shown that it increases heart rate variability, which is tremendous.

[31:15 –> 31:32] Dr. Ravi Kumar: I mean, I don’t know a pill that does that. I don’t I don’t think there’s any pill that exists that does that. Mhmm. And if it did, it would cost you a lot of money. But what what do you think, I mean, do you think that the clinical data on this is is not just placebo?

[31:32 –> 31:46] Dr. Ravi Kumar: I mean, that’s because that’s the biggest criticism people say, oh, that you think it’s good for you, and you can’t have a you can’t have a control group in yoga. Right? Because they’re either doing the yoga or you can’t make them pretend like they are are you can’t make them think that they’re doing yoga and they’re not.

[31:46 –> 31:56] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. I mean, well, there are yeah. That’s true. I mean, but there are plenty of studies take people they take these groups of people, and they make them do yoga. We don’t know what they’re do like, that’s that’s the thing about these studies.

[31:56 –> 32:10] Dean Pohlman: Like, we don’t know what specific poses they’re doing. We don’t know we we we might know I don’t know. When you look at the summary of the studies, right, you don’t know what poses they’re doing. They just focus on they do 20 minutes of yoga a day, and I’m like, what poses are they doing? What’s the emphasis?

[32:10 –> 32:18] Dean Pohlman: Is it like power yoga? Is it Bikram yoga? Is it heated yoga? Is it just like really easy yoga? So, you know, to to to the skeptics, like, okay.

[32:18 –> 32:44] Dean Pohlman: We don’t necessarily know what kind of yoga they’re doing and maybe not how long. But all of these studies, you know, over and over again confirm this. Like, you know, you were talking about how yoga shows improvements in HRV. There’s another one that shows that it increases gray matter in the brain. So there I mean, there’s there’s over and over again, we see that yoga has this has this improvement in brain health and all these other areas.

[32:44 –> 32:51] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. No. Yeah. That that’s an awesome study. And what I meant before is that those studies do have control groups.

[32:51 –> 32:53] Dr. Ravi Kumar: They don’t have sham groups. They don’t have a sham

[32:53 –> 32:53] Dean Pohlman: group

[32:53 –> 32:55] Dr. Ravi Kumar: where yeah. That’s what I meant.

[32:55 –> 32:59] Dean Pohlman: They do have control groups. Right. You can’t have a sugar pill for for for doing yoga.

[32:59 –> 33:00] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Exactly. Yeah.

[33:00 –> 33:01] Dean Pohlman: Yeah.

[33:01 –> 33:11] Dr. Ravi Kumar: No. Those that study you mentioned about the gray matter, I mean, that was crazy. It was three months of yoga. Mhmm. And these are women who thought they were had subjective, you know, cognitive decline.

[33:12 –> 33:43] Dr. Ravi Kumar: And the gray matter, by the way, folks, is this strip of neurons on the outside of your brain. On MRI, it looks gray. And when you cut the brain, it looks it looks kind of dark tan. But it’s, it’s basically where all the neuron bodies exist, and then the white matter is where the wires run through the brain, which are the axons of the neurons. But when you get dementia or neurodegenerative diseases, that gray matter shrinks down, And it’s basically a reduction in your cognitive machinery.

[33:44 –> 34:08] Dr. Ravi Kumar: And they took these women for three months and did yoga, and their gray matter didn’t decrease. While the people who did memory, I think they were like memory exercise training where they, you know, practiced better memory, their gray matter continued to to shrink. So that was crazy Mhmm. That you could do a practice that kept that changed the physiological structure of the brain. Yeah.

[34:08 –> 34:18] Dr. Ravi Kumar: And they’ve also measured that with the hippocampus too, which is like your memory processing centers in the brain. So it it’s like physiological evidence on imaging.

[34:18 –> 34:25] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. No. I mean, I think that also just that that passes the grandma test. Right? Your your grandmother’s knowledge test.

[34:25 –> 34:39] Dean Pohlman: Right? So the I mean, you see this over and over again, but, you know, once you start to lose your ability to move your body and your physical fitness, your your mental cognition follows. And so, you know, I think it’s a great example of that.

[34:40 –> 34:55] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. No. I always tell my patients, once you, stop moving, you start dying. It’s it’s just the way of the world. That’s why if you have a serious injury later in life and you lose your mobility, your lifespan decreases very rapidly, and follows it.

[34:55 –> 35:14] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. Okay. So, let’s talk a little bit about, like, cardiovascular fitness because most people probably think that just maintaining adequate cardiovascular fitness, they gotta go run Mhmm. Or they gotta do some kind of aerobic or even resistance training. Where does yoga fit into this picture?

[35:14 –> 35:38] Dean Pohlman: So I can give you a personal my personal anecdote to this. So when I was younger, I had some mild asthma. I think when I was, I don’t know, maybe like 10, maybe nine, I was diagnosed with asthma. And this was, know, I never really noticed it that much, but I did, you know, have to take sometimes I would take some albuterol, very rarely. So mine was mild.

[35:38 –> 36:06] Dean Pohlman: It was not severe. But something that was interesting, before I started doing yoga, a few months prior, I had gone to see I can’t remember which specialist I saw, but they basically assessed my breathing, and they assessed my cardiovascular levels. And relative to people my age, I was about 90% of what I should have been. Right? So I should have and especially given I was a collegiate athlete, I was like, oh, wow.

[36:06 –> 36:21] Dean Pohlman: Only 90%. Like, I should have been, right, 100. I should have been really good. After starting doing yoga for about a month, I went back. They assessed my breathing again, and now I was in, like, the 110, 115 area.

[36:21 –> 36:39] Dean Pohlman: So that’s my own personal I I don’t know what specifically they were measuring. I think some people come back and they’re like, Dean, your O2 levels can’t be 110. I’m like, I wasn’t talking about my O2 levels. But the point is that, you know, I did that test before and after doing yoga, and there was there was a noticeable improvement, and there was nothing else that changed during that time.

[36:39 –> 36:42] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. It was probably your forced expiratory volume. But

[36:42 –> 36:43] Dean Pohlman: Okay.

[36:43 –> 36:56] Dr. Ravi Kumar: For FEV. Yeah. But it it it has to do a lot with your your lung capacity. So with asthma, you know, you get this this bronchoconstriction. So the the ends of your airways, they close down.

[36:57 –> 37:19] Dr. Ravi Kumar: And so and then they’ll they’ll form these, like, air stale air spaces. So when you breathe out, you don’t get it all out. But whatever you did with yoga increased your you know, the amount of air that you could move out, and that’s something that usually see large FEVs in in athletes and things like that. So that that makes sense. I mean, what exercises would do that?

[37:19 –> 37:29] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. I mean, well, that’s the thing. You know? Most of us never focus on breathing, which is, you know, I I it I guess, it doesn’t make sense, and that does make sense. Right?

[37:29 –> 37:45] Dean Pohlman: You know, there are it doesn’t make sense that we don’t focus on breathing, I guess. Like, we should focus on breathing, but we don’t. So when you’re doing something like yoga, where the focus is on breathing, where and I’ve done every workout. Not every workout, but I’ve done a lot of workouts. Right?

[37:45 –> 37:54] Dean Pohlman: I’ve done, like, I’ve done sports specific training. I have done weight lifting. I’ve done CrossFit. I’ve done Pilates. I’ve done I did a barre class once.

[37:55 –> 38:17] Dean Pohlman: You know, I’ve done tons of different workouts, but there are very few, if any other workouts, I was focusing on how do I improve my breathing ability. Right? How do I breathe more into my into my lungs? How do I push my diaphragm out? How do I you know, there’s different concepts in yoga where you’re talking about breathing into your ribs or breathing into your upper back.

[38:17 –> 38:42] Dean Pohlman: And so just by doing that, you’re improving your cardiovascular ability. And it’s not in the same sense as, you know, like, where you’re trying to do, you know, your your max heart rate, where you’re trying to go all out and see, okay, how long can I sustain this for at my maximum intensity? It’s almost like how can I have more range of motion breathing? Right? It’s how can I expand into this area?

[38:43 –> 39:02] Dean Pohlman: How can I push further out? How can I breathe in all the way and then sip in more? Right? So there’s just there’s just different emphasis on breathing and yoga that allows you to take your cardiovascular fitness to train it in just a different way than you would in other workouts.

[39:02 –> 39:16] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. Because we we don’t ever think about breath training. Right? I mean, there are obviously contingents of people who that’s they just focus on that. But a normal person who’s even into fitness likely doesn’t think, how can I train my breathing?

[39:16 –> 40:02] Dr. Ravi Kumar: And, you know, the the rib cage, I mean, it it you have these muscles in between every rib that expand and contract to open up the the rib cage, and that can that can actually get stiff. And then you have this this muscle called the diaphragm that separates your organs from your your thoracic cavity where your lungs are, and that drops down and expands your lungs. And, I mean, if you’re not training those, then you’re just breathing and opening those spaces up enough to live a just a normal everyday life with no stress or physiological stress. But, you know, a lot of these postures in yoga, I mean, you’re really you’re opening up your whole lateral side, you know, doing these huge, you know Yeah. These postures that you would never do on your way to work and back.

[40:02 –> 40:16] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just just before I recorded, you know, just before I’m on this interview with you, was actually filming a a workout for, specifically, for thoracic mobility. And a lot of the emphasis in that is is this side to side motion with the body. It’s the back bend.

[40:16 –> 40:41] Dean Pohlman: But it’s also things like putting your hand on your rib cage as you’re in side flexion, right, as you’re in, you know, kind of a side bend position. And then I’m saying like, hey. Breathe into your ribs here. And what does it feel like to expand into your hand and kinda push there? And you’re like, oh, there’s all this there’s all this range of motion that I didn’t know about, and it only happens because you get that breathing component added in.

[40:41 –> 40:48] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. Yeah. There there’s actually a great book by James Nestor. It’s called Breath. Okay.

[40:48 –> 40:52] Dr. Ravi Kumar: And he he has this segment in there. He’s the whole book’s about breathing.

[40:52 –> 40:53] Dean Pohlman: Right.

[40:53 –> 41:27] Dr. Ravi Kumar: He has this segment in there where this guy goes into this VA clinic, and he teaches these these vets with COPD how to breathe properly. And not only did it, like, completely open up diseased lungs, but it it actually changed their posture, changed the for the the deformities of their of their spines and their and their rib cages. So, I mean, breath is a real thing. Not only does it control the nervous system like you had talked about earlier, but it it it it changes the shape of your body. And so yeah.

[41:27 –> 41:37] Dr. Ravi Kumar: And we don’t you know, you go do sprints and interval training or, you know, bench press or, you know, whatever it is you’re doing, even aerobic running, you’re not you don’t think about your breathing one time during that exercise.

[41:37 –> 41:48] Dean Pohlman: Right. Yeah. Yeah. It’s a it’s a it is a great idea if you’ve never done it to I’m not sure how you would do it, maybe, like because it’s not traditional yoga. Right?

[41:48 –> 42:23] Dean Pohlman: You’re not gonna go to a traditional yoga class and say, like, hey, like, I want you to figure out where I’m not breathing properly, but something that you could do on your own is you can just lay down on your back, and you can touch just your basically, your entire torso. Right? Touch your stomach, touch your back, touch the obliques, the side of your body, touch your ribs, right, kind of your intercostals, your chest, and just notice, left to right, is the air expanding evenly into all of these areas? And so there, you can kind of start to notice like, oh, it feels like I’m not expanding into my left side as much as my right side. I wonder why that is.

[42:23 –> 42:46] Dean Pohlman: And then you can kind of do this deductive reasoning and kind of go through your experience with exercise and think, oh, you know what? That kind of makes sense because my right lower back hurts more often than my left lower back, or my right hip is stronger than my left hip, or, like, I can do an exercise on this side without pain, but I can’t do it on my other side without pain. So and and, you know, like we’re saying, like, that can go back to breathing.

[42:47 –> 43:02] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting. So let’s talk about a little bit about the practical side of all this because we’ve talked a lot about the science and and the the Mhmm. You know, theoretical meth you know, reasons why yoga changes the body.

[43:03 –> 43:15] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Mhmm. But how do people apply this in life? I mean, it would be really nice to kinda break these into groups, you know, because they’re not everyone’s the same. You’ve got the athletes, like, you know, who are in great shape like you. Mhmm.

[43:15 –> 43:34] Dr. Ravi Kumar: You’ve got, you know, people who like to stay fit but have busy careers, so they’re they don’t have a ton of time. You’ve got Mhmm. Elderly, and you’ve got women. You’ve got men. I mean, do you have a general prescription, or do you break things down differently for different people, and how can they apply this to their lives?

[43:34 –> 43:54] Dean Pohlman: A lot of this comes down to fitness level. Know, like, I make a lot of series. Like, I’ve got a really popular yoga for men in their sixties series, but, you know, at the same time, it’s also a great program for people in their thirties. So, you know, I have a program for men in their fifties, one for men in their forties. And a lot of that just comes down to, like, kind of what is your overall fitness level right now?

[43:54 –> 44:17] Dean Pohlman: Because I’ve got guys who are in their seventies who could do, you know, a yoga program that I made for guys who are my age. And then I’ve got guys in their forties who will struggle with yoga for men in their sixties. So it it really comes down to, you know, kinda where is your overall fitness level right now? How much has life beat you up in terms of, you know, your mobility levels? What previous injuries are you dealing with?

[44:18 –> 44:51] Dean Pohlman: So it it largely depends on, you know, where are you currently with your fitness levels. I also think, you know, we kinda talked about this before when I was questioning, hey. Like, what kind of yoga were they doing in these studies? Yoga is such a broad term because you have on the one hand, you have what’s called yin yoga, which is like nap yoga, and you kinda go and you do these really really long held relaxing stretches. And then on the other hand, you’ve got like power yoga, which is meant to be very upbeat, you know, lots of lots of sweating, lots of heat.

[44:51 –> 45:21] Dean Pohlman: And so you have a wide range of yoga, you know, and even a Vinyasa yoga class from one teacher could be totally different from a Vinyasa class from another yoga teacher. So there’s so many different ways to do yoga, so many different intensities that even the style, you know, even within certain yoga styles, huge range. So kind of what I’m getting at here is you should find a yoga that resonates with you. You know, there are tons of different instructors. There are tons of different yoga studios.

[45:21 –> 45:43] Dean Pohlman: If you’re interested in doing in person and you have the time for it, most classes are an hour. You’ll find some for 45, maybe some 75, maybe some 90 minutes. Try those out. Most yoga studios offer, a first month or, like, first week deal of some sort. So you can go in, test out a few different yoga instructors, find out your vibe, see who else is in the room, and see if that fits you.

[45:43 –> 46:07] Dean Pohlman: For people who are more, you know, time poor, then maybe you don’t have time to go to yoga class, or maybe you’re like one of those guys who’s like, I don’t wanna go do something I don’t know how to do in front of somebody else. Or maybe you’re someone who’s like, I don’t wanna go join the the Lululemon, look at me, look at me. You know? Because there are some yoga studios where it is, look at me, look at me. Or people are are trying to breathe louder than other people.

[46:07 –> 46:45] Dean Pohlman: I mean, this this happens, you know, those stereotypes are there for a reason. And so that’s where, you know, maybe finding an online program works well. You know, so like, me, for example, I’ve got classes that start at just five minutes, and they go up to 60 minutes. Most of mine are like 25 to 30 minutes, but you don’t have to do an entire hour of yoga to to benefit from it. And, you know, there’s there’s there’s there’s just tons of options out there, and there’s tons of ways for you to try and see, like, what works for me, like, what will work for you, and who do you vibe with, and ultimately, what’s what’s going to help you be consistent and feel motivated to do it?

[46:45 –> 47:07] Dean Pohlman: Because I always tell people, like, hey, like, I’ve got, you know, over 50 structured programs. I’ve got things for low back pain, posture, hips, you know, performance improvement, runners, lifters. But if you listen to the first five minutes of a YouTube workout from me, and you don’t like me, then you’re not gonna like you’re not gonna do my workouts. You’re like, oh, yeah. I really hate Dean.

[47:07 –> 47:12] Dean Pohlman: What I do is workouts every day. Like, no. You’re not gonna do that. So you gotta find someone that you vibe with.

[47:13 –> 47:26] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. No. I mean, I’ve done yoga classes in person, and I’ll tell you personally, I prefer online classes. The time commitment is so much lower. You don’t have to drive somewhere.

[47:26 –> 47:40] Dr. Ravi Kumar: You don’t have to get dressed. Mean, you can you can do it in your underwear if you want. Yeah. You know, you just roll out a mat in a room with a TV or a computer or laptop, and you Yep. And you do yoga, and it’s so accessible.

[47:40 –> 47:51] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Literally, you can buy a $10 mat at Walmart. I’ve even done them on bare floors, you know, carpets, as long as it’s not sliding around. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s so accessible.

[47:51 –> 48:05] Dr. Ravi Kumar: You don’t need a prescription. You don’t need a lot of money. You just need a place with a digital connection. And and it’s so and you’ll still get all the benefits. Not like you you know?

[48:05 –> 48:09] Dr. Ravi Kumar: And minus the, you know, $130 Lululemon clothes.

[48:09 –> 48:10] Dean Pohlman: You know? Yeah. Exactly.

[48:12 –> 48:31] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Which okay. So that being said, Dean, it sounds like people have to do a little bit of exploration to find out what’s best for them, and everyone’s gonna be a little different. I would tell people, even if you’re in great shape and you haven’t done yoga before, don’t overestimate your ability because you’ll you’ll probably get your butt kicked in that first class.

[48:32 –> 48:34] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. It’ll humble you in a good way.

[48:34 –> 48:47] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. In a good way and give you some goals. I mean, that’s how it did for me, and and it still does to to this day. But yeah. So how can people find you and maybe take one of your classes online or or or work with you?

[48:47 –> 49:20] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. So my the Man Flow Yoga app in members area is that’s where all of my workouts and programs go. I’ll say that, you know, my core demographic is men forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, guys who probably wouldn’t vibe with traditional yoga, who are not as flexible as other people, who haven’t done yoga before. That said, about 10 to 15% of our members are women. So I and I think the women are there because they’re probably tight just like the men, and they also just want kind of the the non spiritual fitness centric approach.

[49:20 –> 49:24] Dean Pohlman: So that’s all at manflowyoga.com. Yeah. And that’s where I put everything.

[49:24 –> 49:38] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Okay. Yeah. I’ll definitely put a link in the show notes. And people can go to manflowyoga.com and see what Dean has to offer. Think, you know, you also have a very successful YouTube channel as well.

[49:38 –> 49:39] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Right?

[49:39 –> 49:43] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. That is kind of a that’s how people find me. So Yeah. Yeah. Same title.

[49:43 –> 50:01] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. YouTube.com/ManFlowYoga. I only have 1,300 videos there, so you probably won’t find something that you like. But, yeah, like, go in and search for what you’re looking for. I mean, shoulders, knees, hips, back, core, posture, herniated disc, you know, pain in your knees, whatever.

[50:01 –> 50:02] Dean Pohlman: I’ve probably got it.

[50:03 –> 50:07] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Okay. Very cool. Yeah. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show. It’s been awesome.

[50:07 –> 50:09] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Love talking about yoga.

[50:09 –> 50:11] Dean Pohlman: We got your we got your promo code.

[50:11 –> 50:19] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Okay. Yeah. And we’ll we’ll put that I’ll put it across the screen here so everyone can see it. It’s just my last name. You can and what will they get if they use that promo code?

[50:19 –> 50:33] Dean Pohlman: They’ll get a nice chunk of savings. I don’t think we’ve decided yet, but it’ll it’ll it’ll be like it’ll be anywhere from, like, 15% off, I think. 15 or 20% off. Now I have to do 20% because I said 20%, but Okay. 20% off, yeah.

[50:33 –> 50:45] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Okay. Well, don’t quote Dean on that, but yeah. Promo code’s Kumar, K-U-M-A-R. And yeah, and if you don’t wanna use it, that’s fine too. Just if you’ve got some issue in your life that could improve, try it.

[50:45 –> 51:08] Dr. Ravi Kumar: I mean, I’m half Indian. So I mean, it’s in my my my genetic heritage Yeah. To this this practice of yoga. And I was so skeptical up until, like, I turned 40, literally. And then and I thought, oh, it’s, you know, it’s for women who, you know, who will like to wear tight clothes and go into classes and, you know, do these stretches, which I can’t do.

[51:08 –> 51:18] Dr. Ravi Kumar: And, I’m not being misogynistic right now. That’s just what that’s was my general perception. Yeah. Yeah. And then and then and then I did a class with my wife.

[51:18 –> 51:50] Dr. Ravi Kumar: I was like, what the heck? First of all, I I got my butt kicked, you know, and my wife’s sitting there doing, you know, side planks for, you know, three minutes, and I can’t I can’t hold it for 30 seconds. And then and then, you know, all these, you know, I was very inflexible. And it the more and more I did yoga, the more I was like, this is probably the the single most beneficial exercise I’ve ever done, and I’ve done everything. And I’m not saying don’t go do those other exercises, but yoga was transformative for my body.

[51:51 –> 52:03] Dr. Ravi Kumar: I think there’s a reason it’s persisted for millennia is because it’s it is it is a synergistic study of physical activity in the human body, and it it it works. So

[52:03 –> 52:06] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. It’s a it’s a thing for sure.

[52:06 –> 52:09] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yeah. Well, thanks so much, Dean. This was an awesome conversation.

[52:09 –> 52:16] Dean Pohlman: Yeah. I appreciate you having me on. Great questions. Great great conversation. Hopefully, I did a good job explaining.

[52:16 –> 52:51] Dean Pohlman: And, you know, I think the last thing I’ll say that we haven’t really said, you know, this is like all of us need something like this if we want to age with grace. This is not a nice to have. This is a you need to be doing something like this if you want to continue to do the things that you physically enjoy now. So whether that’s lifting weights, running, skiing, hiking, you know, at some point, knee pain, back pain, shoulder pain, something’s going to pop up, and it’s so much easier to be proactive rather than reactive. Right?

[52:51 –> 53:02] Dean Pohlman: We wanna start doing these exercises now instead of getting to the point where, you know, you’re hanging out with Dr. Kumar in a consultation saying, alright, what’s this what’s the surgery gonna look like?

[53:02 –> 53:08] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Amen. I that was those were words of wisdom. So see Dean first, so you don’t have to see me later, guys.

[53:10 –> 53:11] Dean Pohlman: It’s a good summary. Yeah.

[53:11 –> 53:18] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Alright. Cheers. Okay. So I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Dean Pohlman. It was a fun one for me personally.

[53:18 –> 53:49] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Yoga’s been a big deal in my life, and I loved getting into the actual mechanics of why it works with someone who thinks about it as deeply as he does. So here’s what I want you to walk away with. Yoga is not just a flexibility class for people who are already bendy. It’s a legitimate evidence based practice for spinal health, breathing capacity, nervous system regulation, and a lot more. And a lot of us are missing out on it simply because we don’t understand the benefits.

[53:49 –> 54:21] Dr. Ravi Kumar: Now, I want you to hear this part, and this is really important. It’s never too late to get started with yoga, period. I didn’t start until I was in my forties, and honestly, it’s one of the most beneficial exercises you can do with the lowest barrier to entry. Literally, you can do it in the privacy of your own house, in your underwear if you want, I sometimes do, and with nothing more than an Internet connection and a yoga mat. And Dean’s own YouTube channel, Man Flow Yoga, has over a thousand free videos organized by body part.

[54:21 –> 54:45] Dr. Ravi Kumar: So if you’re dealing with hips, shoulders, knees, or back pain, there’s almost certainly something there for you. And if you wanna go deeper with some really excellent instruction, check out Dean’s app and membership at manflowyoga.com. And if you do sign up, make sure to use the discount code Kumar, K-U-M-A-R, and that’ll get you a discounted price. Okay, folks. Cheers, and I’ll see you next week.

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